Fieldbus diagnostics

[binkaFF]

Hi

The market seems to be flooded with FF physical layer diagnostic tools. We are getting confused on what to select. Will the asset management software be able to provide all the diagnostic information of a FF network including the physical layer.

This tool is causing a additional burden on our economics. However some of the features of thse tools seem to justify the cost. I would like to know more on the Diagnostic tool information or comparision of P+F,MTL,Turck etc.
Can anyone help us out.

Regards

BinkaFF

[rezabejd]

BinkaFF,

I wrote a brief summary for the January 2007 issue of "Control"; you can view it here (http://www.controlglobal.com/articles/2007/004.html).

I have one of the P+F ADM's in service & have tried it on a few of our P+F power conditioner backplanes. Personally I think they need to make the interface a little easier. I'm not sure where FDT/DTM is headed - hopefully merging happily with the EDDL project - but the current tool is a bit of a struggle in our situation, running it on a laptop & interfacing through an RS-485 to Ethernet connection.

If you had a bunch of them, you could monitor them all through the same network, maybe use your Asset Management server to run the DTM (FDT?).

P+F has what I consider a very good "white paper" showing the value of having such a tool. Ask them for one.

I think all of these have a "contact closure" output, which is how I would recommend integration with the system, versus worrying about Asset Management system.

I am not promoting the P+F solution over the others - they are just the first to deliver product and the only one I've tried. Turck has released theirs now, which uses Fieldbus HSE instead of RS-485. It also uses FDT-DTM to view the data.

My expectation is that these things will be pretty boring 99% of the time - nothing much to look at - until one catches something before it causes a process upset. You'd only wake up and look at the details when the alarm comes in via hard-wired contact.

HTH
John Rezabek
ISP Lima LLC

[tklatt]

Hello BinkaFF,
generally all stationary diagnostic tools give you information about status of the fieldbus power supply, supply voltage, supply current, min./max. signal level, balance of the system and noise. Some (P+F, Turck) offers additionally the jitter level.
The big difference in my opinion is that P+F offers within the software wizards for commissioning, which passes you automatically threw all required measurements defines automatically all required warning levels and download them to the diagnostic tool. Then you will be automatically alarmed when abnormal changes happen during operation. This feature could be recognized as a "loop check" which reduce the required time to do this work.
In that case the P+F solution offers you information what the reason for this changes could be. And, if required, an oscilloscope is integrated where you can trigger on different fieldbus events (pass token, missing pass token, ...)

Thomas Klatt

Manager International Sales Support PA/
Business Development Manager Fieldbus Systems
GAM/GPP

Pepperl+Fuchs GmbH
Koenigsberger Allee 87
68307 Mannheim
Germany
Phone: +49 621 776-2130
Fax: +49 621 776-1140
E-Mail: tklatt@de.pepperl-fuchs.com
www.pepperl-fuchs.com

PROTECTING YOUR PROCESS

Pepperl+Fuchs GmbH, Mannheim
Geschaeftsfuehrer/Managing Directors: Dr.-Ing. Gunther Kegel (Vors./CEO), Dr.-Ing. Peter Adolphs, Werner Guthier, Mehmet Hatiboglu
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the supervisory board: Dr. Volker Langbein
Registergericht/Register Court: AG Mannheim HRB 4713

[Mike ONeill]

The principal benefit being touted for fieldbus right now is Business Intelligence a.k.a "asset management", and advanced diagnostics from the bus is one of the main planks that supports the expected reduction in OPEX. As you say, most physical layer suppliers now also provide sophisticated diagnostic tools at varying capability/cost levels.

As standard, we go with a basic diagnostic module (monitors low voltages or high noise tripping a volt-free contact) for continuous use at the power conditioner carrier (mounting hardware), then go for more bells & whistles once a segment is detected as being naughty. Sticking an all "singing & dancing" diagnostic tool/laptop on every segment seems way over the top, bearing in mind most new segments go in pretty well and have few issues.

When we do put in an 'advanced' diagnostics tool, we like to use the H1 communications network since it's already there and it's already connected up to the asset manager package. The diagnostic blocks inside that module then look like regular fieldbus function blocks, avoiding the steep learning curve required to properly get to grips with an external communications link & special software package.

Of course, you have to manage which segment you load with the diagnostic data flow or start up another H1 card just for diagnostics (connecting many such units together on a specific H1 diagnostic segment is a neat idea). Don't forget that diagnostic data is just that - the important stuff / more significant alarms are already coming through and have higher priority.

[binkaFF]

It will be great if i can get the datasheets for more precise info on these tools. I could download the P+F datasheets but could not locate MTL and Turck website is crawling.

Regards

[aagostin]

The diagnostic module from MTL is called F809F, and it also communicates via FF H1 and is hence directly integrated into DCS for alarming using the Alarm function blocks, as well as the asset management software.
The link to the datasheet is currently in the download section (Download, datasheets):
http://194.203.250.243/download.nsf/854270a29370dec5002568ac0041c57b/53adec18a07804af802572f9003b1a99/$FILE/EPS%20F809F%20-1.pdf

You can email me at aagostin@mtlsing.com.sg if I can assist you with further information or a product demonstration.

[binkaFF]

Can you give me a comparision with the P+F and Turck modules. What price is quoted for this module. How is it comparable with the prici in the market.

Regards

Binka




The diagnostic module from MTL is called F809F, and it also communicates via FF H1 and is hence directly integrated into DCS for alarming using the Alarm function blocks, as well as the asset management software.
The link to the datasheet is currently in the download section (Download, datasheets):
http://194.203.250.243/download.nsf/854270a29370dec5002568ac0041c57b/53adec18a07804af802572f9003b1a99/$FILE/EPS%20F809F%20-1.pdf

You can email me at aagostin@mtlsing.com.sg if I can assist you with further information or a product demonstration.

[rhighton]

Binka FF

In answer to your original question MTL developed our Fieldbus Diagnostic Module to easily integrate into your asset management software, whatever fieldbus Process Automation System you have selected. Today, most control systems support the H1 level of fieldbus, so a Foundation fieldbus H1 fieldbus diagnostic device readily provides data on physical layer status. This is provided in the fieldbus transducer blocks that your instrumentation team are already familiar with from supporting other H1 fieldbus devices.

When developing our on-line diagnostic module I spoke to many experienced fieldbus users, several of them participate in this user forum and was given a target of providing diagnostics for less that US $200/segment. At our list price the F809F is below this target cost.

Further details are available on our website: http://www.mtl-inst.com/products/fieldbus/fieldbus_diagnostics.htm

[tklatt]

Hello BinkaFF,
regarding the price of the P+F tool please contact your local P+F subsidiary or P+F agent.
The price of such a tool is one important point but on the other side you should be aware about the functionality. In case of using a commissioning wizard (supported by P+F only) you can do a loop check of a segment within 5 Minutes which includes an automatic protocol generation and automatic generation of individual warning levels for each segment. This will reduce the required commissioning time and depending on this it will reduce the costs for this work.
So it could be benefitial to spend a little bit more for the tool when you have other savings.

Best regards

Thomas Klatt

Manager International Sales Support PA/
Business Development Manager Fieldbus Systems
GAM/GPP

Pepperl+Fuchs GmbH
Koenigsberger Allee 87
68307 Mannheim
Germany
Phone: +49 621 776-2130
Fax: +49 621 776-1140
E-Mail: tklatt@de.pepperl-fuchs.com
www.pepperl-fuchs.com

PROTECTING YOUR PROCESS

Pepperl+Fuchs GmbH, Mannheim
Geschaeftsfuehrer/Managing Directors: Dr.-Ing. Gunther Kegel (Vors./CEO), Dr.-Ing. Peter Adolphs, Werner Guthier, Mehmet Hatiboglu
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the supervisory board: Dr. Volker Langbein
Registergericht/Register Court: AG Mannheim HRB 4713